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Catching Up With Christians
Catching Up With Christians
Catching Up With Christians: EP: 8: With Amy Oberg, Founder of Hope and Health Hub
How do you navigate a world where faith and mental health intersect? Join us this week as we uncover the inspiring journey of Amy Oberg, a PhD student in psychology who seamlessly blends her rich background in biblical studies with her passion for mental health advocacy. Amy's transformative path from a women’s pastor to founding the Hope and Health Hub in Kingman, Arizona, is nothing short of remarkable. We reminisce about a pivotal moment from my childhood that she influenced, shining a light on her profound impact on my faith journey.
Amy opens up about the complexities and rewards of ministry beyond the traditional church environment. Discover how faith can guide us through rejection and help us grow into leadership roles that extend beyond four walls. We emphasize the importance of serving and leading in everyday life, and Amy shares her wisdom on aligning mind, body, and soul through holistic service. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone seeking to find their purpose and direction in life through faith.
In a fascinating exploration of faith and psychology, Amy addresses the historical skepticism towards psychology within the church. Learn about the innovative strategies she employs at the Hope and Health Hub to integrate mental and spiritual health, including practical advice on setting emotional boundaries in care ministries. We also discuss her collaborative project to create mental health journals for Generation Z. Concluding with a heartfelt prayer, this episode is a testament to God's glory in ministry and the transformative power of being active vessels for His work. Don’t miss this enriching conversation with Amy Oberg.
You can connect with Amy on Instagram @AmytOberg and at AmyOberg.com.
What's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Catching Up with Christians podcast. I'm your host, Coach Dan McCarty, alongside a dear friend of mine, amy Boberg. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. That's awesome. Thank you so much for hopping on here with us today. If you wouldn't mind kind of giving the listeners a little rundown of who you are, what you do and how you got to where you are.
Speaker 2:listeners, a little rundown of who you are, what you do and how you got to where you are Sure. So I'm actually a PhD student in psychology. I have less than a year left, which is awesome. So I have a biblical studies degree and I have a master's in psychology, and now I'm getting a psychology degree as a doctor, which will be really cool. So that's amazing.
Speaker 2:My journey into psychology turned out to be kind of something I fell into, because our world really has changed. Our world really has morphed and mental health has become huge and we really have to figure out how to deal with mental health, and so I felt like somebody in 2020,. I was a women's pastor, and one thing that happened to me in a over a series of like a week was I had a 17 year old suicidal girl in my office one day, and then the next day I had a 62 year old hoarder. And then the week after that, I had a 17 year old suicidal girl in my office one day, and then the next day I had a 62 year old hoarder, and then the week after that, I had a young lady who's 24 years old come in and she said hey, uh, I just got diagnosed with bipolar two schizoaffective disorder. What do I do now? And I was like I don't know. I have a Bible degree, and so I realized that there was a huge gap in my life of understanding what was going on in our world in 2020. And so I figured I have a soul degree in the Bible and it's very much just a heart degree. And then I decided I needed to understand what was going on in the brain and what was going on in the body when we talk about, like anxiety and mental illness, and how those all things function together, because God says that we're made mind, body and soul and we have to attend to all of those things. And so now I feel like I'm on this track of understanding mental health in a whole new way and I get a bonus of understanding all the mental illnesses and all of the abnormal psychology that's out there as well.
Speaker 2:And so I am a counselor in town here in Kingman, and so I stepped out of my ministry role into opening my own business to help people and to help fill the gaps within our city, which is a very small city. I'm in Kingman, arizona, and so I opened the Hope and Health Hub, and my goal was not necessarily to sit with people but to figure out how to lead leaders so that we can bring care not only to our church leaders but to bring more information into the workplaces and schools and Christian schools, and so I actually teach at a Christian school once a month. I've taught at multiple schools, I've taught at multiple schools, I've taught at the county, and so I see myself more teaching workshops and leading and teaching environment and as much as I do sit with people one-on-one, that's not the end goal. I'm getting a PhD, so that's more research and writing books and stuff like that. So that's kind of where I've landed, where I've put two mental health journals out this year.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing. I mean there's so much to unpack there which I'm really excited to, but honestly it just comes back to this mindset that I feel like you have. That's just serving right, giving back just of what God's been able to teach you in your life and through experiences and I'm sure, hardships and different aspects of your life. That has also led you to want to use your testimony and your story, your experiences, to also to then help other people through their journey. So I love that. That's super inspiring. Before we dive into those lovely things, I'd love to just kind of tell the listeners how we know each other. You know this goes way back. I kind of know you know the base story. Maybe you could give a little detail of what I don't know. But from my perspective, you know, between you and I I mean it was when I was I want to say eight or seven and I, I mean it was when I was, I want to say eight or seven which now is 14 years. You know I'll be 22 in November here and I believe there's, you know, my dad and your husband and you all, some something in the electrical engineer or the electrical lighting world kind of came across tracks at some point. But, um, between you and I, because of that relationship with my dad and my parents, um, you ultimately did a really powerful thing early on. That was a pretty significant part of my faith walk right, um, for the listeners know this, um, I'm huge into music. When I'm talking about music like like last year my Spotify rap I listened to 170,000 minutes of music. Like I love my music and at that time I was really big into artists like Audio, adrenaline, toby Mac some really influential people in my life in the music world at that point life in the music world at that point. And I had recently had a video when I was younger that was taken of me, that was like a day in the life, basically, of a child with my disability, and I was six years old At that point. Amy knew that I love music, she knew that video was made and and at some point she was like, hey, I know someone that knows someone that might, you know, be able to get you to meet some people and I know you like the music. So let's see what happens. So I don't know much happened on that end, but I know from my end I was just like an eight year old I was like, okay, sweet, I show up at this time, I get to hear some music, maybe I meet somebody great Like this is cool.
Speaker 1:But I look back at that moment now and how much it's influenced my faith walk, because I tell people, you know, the way I connect with God the most has been through music. And one reason is I have ADHD. So my mind goes, wow, so reading the Bible? You know I love it. Um, but I struggle with that sometimes, you know, just keeping my mind focused right. So I didn't.
Speaker 1:I typically listen to the bible. But music, when you're laying in a hospital bed and you're in so much pain or discomfort and you have nowhere else to turn and the only thing that can really just give you a sense of peace, of just like calming you down, is like a song or a worship song or an artist specifically. It's different. You know, like my buddies to this day will tease me. They're like bro, you getting into it tonight at worship. I'm like dude, when you're like I said, when you're in a hospital room there's nothing else to do and a song comes on that you resonate with and you can feel the presence of the Lord upon you in that area it's different. So it's a really significant moment in my life and I love that you're in your perspective on kind of what you led you to do that Ultimately, yeah, from your perspective absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 2:So this is such a cool story and I'm so excited that I got to be a part of it because, um, you're totally right.
Speaker 2:So, um, my husband and your dad, um, knew each other from the lighting industry and they worked together at, I think, 2008, like it was a long time ago, and, um, so, but we've always kind of stayed connected and then, of course, your sister and my daughter were very good friends and so that's like this cool connection that kept our families together and I had the pleasure of randomly meeting Audio Adrenaline, of randomly meeting, um, audio adrenaline, and so we ended up at dinner and, um, that connection kind of stayed together. And then, about a year later, was when I found out that you really liked Toby Mac and audio adrenaline, and just so happened that they knew each other and I just made a phone call and said, hey, um, you know we're going to the Toby Mac show, but, um, this is Dan and he would love to meet you, um, and so they set the whole thing up and, um, you ended up going backstage, if I remember correctly, I remember, and Toby Mack shouted me out that night too.
Speaker 2:I remember that that's right.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I was in the crowd when he was like hey, dan the man. So it was so cool.
Speaker 1:Very cool connection. No, that's so cool. I think, like we said, just kind of who you are as an individual and who Christ calls us to be is serving and really trying to be the life for others. And, like I said, in that moment you might not realize what that seed is going to flourish into. And from that moment I still cling on to faith.
Speaker 1:Christian music to this day, right in the hard seasons of my life. Christian music to this day, right and the hard seasons of my life. And I think those roots that you plant early, I think, have such a significant impact and you just don't know when right and I think, to all the listeners, I think it's just a great example of do the right thing and if those spirits leading you to do something and you might not see the benefit right away, maybe you'll never see the benefit till you're in heaven, but ultimately that's what God's going to want you to do and because that's that's being more like Jesus. So that's a really significant moment in my life and I'm extremely, extremely thankful for that. It was. It was wild.
Speaker 1:I was going through the pictures the other day just because I was like trying to. I knew I was going to have you on. We're going to bring up this conversation. I was like man, I'm so small, I'm like Toby Max holding me up on his shoulder like this, but that was such an amazing moment and I really appreciate that. So let's kind of dive in here a little bit more about you know what you do now and, ultimately, I know you had a variety, if I'm not mistaken kind of careers or paths before you led it to what you're doing now and talk about maybe, like I know you mentioned a couple experiences in 2020, but maybe go even further back where you felt kind of the call to ministry I know it's the ministry within your church and kind of how God used some things in your life to lead you into a path of just serving him and others that follow him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been in kind of. I think that I was the person who said I'll never be in ministry because I was a pastor's kid. So you grow up as a pastor's kid and you're like, oh, I'm never going to do that, and then all of a sudden you find yourself staying and then you find yourself being a leader up when I was I don't know how old I was, I was probably 27, 28 years old where I kind of got into a space where I was like okay, god, what are we doing? And it wasn't until I was about 29 where God was like, hey, this is kind of how I want you to go. And, um, I I ended up going to my church and trying out for the vocal team. And you know, I, I I'm already a worship leader and so I let, I led it lots of different churches and, um, I didn't make it. Um, and so it was really hard because I was like, dang, this is my church and I didn't even make the team, and so I Don't let him fool you guys.
Speaker 1:He can sing. I've heard it. He can sing. Don't let it fool you, all the listeners, he can sing. I forgot that was one of the many gifts you had and I remember seeing the videos. Yeah, so you can say don't let it fool you guys.
Speaker 2:Well you know God is so good, because I honestly sulked for like three months and he brought me into that. He brought me to Mark and he basically said, if you want to be made known in the kingdom, then you serve. And I was like, oh, he's getting my heart right. And so I ended up going back to the church and I said, hey, obviously if I don't fit on the vocal team, that's okay, but where do I fit? And I ended up becoming like that Wednesday night, becoming like a lighting person for the Wednesday night service, and I was like it was like when they had like RGB and you could like fade them during bridges, and it was before they had all of these massive like production booths.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And within like a month they realized that I had some leadership skills and so I ended up becoming a producer for that church for about five years and God was really faithful in that, because a year later there was restoration. I ended up becoming one of the worship leaders there and it was super, super cool. And then that ministry kind of continued, kind of my whole path. I led worship for women and, um, kind of became a leader in the women's ministry. And then, um, eventually God said, you know, I was like, what do you want me to do with this?
Speaker 2:And obviously the music industry is really big for me. I love, um, all of our artists and stuff like that. And um, god said he just wanted me to feed my sheep. And I said, oh, okay, in worship, okay, great. And I just kind of followed that path and, uh, that led all the way up until I ended up moving to Kingman Arizona and, uh, I ended up getting a job as a worship leader and so I was a worship leader for three years and then I was moved into women's ministry. I had a Bible degree, so I was qualified. We started this huge women's ministry which is going huge right now and it's great.
Speaker 2:And the transition for me was, yes, you can lead worship with your music, but can you lead worship with your life? And so I transitioned from worship into women's ministry and became the women's pastor for three years and it was great and I love that time. I love serving people. And then, after 2020 and all of these things happened, it led me to get more schooling, and that has led me into where I am today, which is really seeking how to help people find not only some balance and emotional stability, but also it requires, like one to, but also it requires, like one to have mind, body and soul connected in alignment.
Speaker 1:And so you need the soul piece to live healthy. So it's definitely more. Oh, I love that. No, I think for me, one of the things that I'm kind of in a journey in my life right now has been understanding that ministry is not just in the four walls. And I think that you know, there's a misconception sometimes in the. You know, as Christ followers, we think like if we are serving, it has to be within our church.
Speaker 1:And you know, I felt called to the ministry a few years back but I ignored it. I'll be straight up, honest, they know it. I was kind of like OK, but I'm enjoying college baseball, this is cool, I'm serving these players. But God was like no, there's something bigger. Like you got to pursue this, you got to get this. You're talking about education.
Speaker 1:I did not like school, I was never passionate about school, and God was like bro, you need to get your education. You got something bigger on your life that you need to help. You know, like you said, feed the sheep, you know, lead them and those types of things. And so what I realized quickly was when I started getting plugged in to my central church. I love it, I'm really heavily plugged in there. I'll be an intern here in August. Everything's great there, but what I realized is that it doesn't just stop within that building and ultimately you can branch out.
Speaker 1:Your ministry can look so different. Can branch out, your ministry can look so different, and I think sometimes we attach ministry or serving to a status or a career path or whatever. But in the Bible it's very simple, right, like, as you know your will for your life, you know that God wants you is ultimately love others, seek him above all else, go, make disciples right and baptize people and the Father and Son, the Holy Spirit, like he, makes it very simple what that looks like, and I think as a society, as humans, we have tried to create it as something bigger than what it is, and that's something I'm working on in my own life. Right, I know we have similar things we're doing now right with you know mentoring and you know your counseling. You're doing so many great things and I'm now embarking on this journey with faith-based motivational speaking and now doing you know mentorship, like life coaching, and what I've realized is that's a ministry as well. You know it's Christ-oriented. That's a ministry as well, you know it's Christ-oriented. Therefore, it's a ministry and I think sometimes we can lose sight of that and people can.
Speaker 1:Maybe you can get into the psychology of this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder what the effect is on people and their mental health and the way they view themselves when they think that maybe what they're doing is less than something someone else right? Um, and I think it's so important to remind yourselves that we're all god's children, we're all equal. What we're doing is equally significant as the other person and we're, you know, following god and loving people and loving him and our ministry can be anything.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter your career, doesn't matter where you're put. There's no coincidences. God's going to put you in the right situation at the right time to do his will and his purpose for you and his kingdom ultimately to be glorified. So I love that, because now you know you're transitioned right from being in the church and now, with you know, hope and Health Hub. Right Now you're branching out, but it's still ministry, right, it's still Christ-based and you're still navigating this and everything like that. So talk about maybe that transition from going I know you talked a little bit about it, but maybe what was your mindset from going to a ministry within the church to now your ministry being outside of the church. How has that been mentally?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really hard. There's a normal well, a cultural, maybe societal understanding that when you're spiritually mature, what you do is you go and you are a leader in the church. That's like the normal pathway and you just become a spiritual leader in the church, and I just don't think that's accurate. And so I feel like we grow as leaders and disciples and no matter where God has us. I've probably had way more in-depth ministry experiences outside of the walls of the church, even though there's this tension of feeling like, because you're spiritually mature, you should be in the church.
Speaker 2:And I also feel like there's a difference in calling and so, whereas there are some people that are called to a location and that's their location inside the four walls of a church and that's where God has called them, I also feel like there are people that are called to the city and so or regionally maybe, and so it those two things don, those two things don't really, uh, meet well, because they're different and so they're not understood well maybe.
Speaker 2:And so there's not a ton of clarity when you're a spiritual leader, but maybe you're a leader for the city, and so I, I want my whole city and I know that people in the location also want their whole city, except my calling is not for the four walls, and so it's a distinction between the location and the city, and sometimes that's bigger and sometimes it's smaller, and sometimes it's more one-on-one and sometimes it's in a group and so it just looks different, but both are sacred, and I feel like we also have an understanding that, even if you work at a bank, that it's not sacred. And the truth is is that, no matter where you work, that role is sacred to God.
Speaker 2:And so does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I totally agree, love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just feel like we give like the four wall leadership kind of a pedestal of this is where we should be, going and I feel like every part of our world and every role that we're in. If you are a Jesus follower, then your role is 100% sacred, regardless of what the stigma around a spiritual leader in the church is.
Speaker 1:You killed. That. That was so well said and I couldn't agree more and I couldn't agree more, and that is that is so amazing. And I I would love to talk a little bit more specifically. Your what health and you know hope specifically, what is your target niche and your ministry area? I know you mentioned a little bit about you know raising up the leaders, and so they can with the mental health aspect as well, but can you go in a little more detail about kind of what is your mission and what is your why and what's your vision? I'd love to hear those three things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Hope and Health Hub is was birthed out of, first, my calling. Who am I and what do I want to offer? What is my, you know, in my life? If I'm going to offer my life as a sacrifice, really, and as a form of worship, then what do I have to offer? And so the two things that I feel like I have to offer is the hope of Christ and the understanding of health. So that's where Hope and Health Hub came from, and I really wanted to be a hub for our city and fill some gaps in our city, and so there are three things that I offer.
Speaker 2:I offer individual counseling. I'm growth-focused, short-term therapy, so for me, I don't see people weekly such as normal therapists would, and the reason for that is that our waiting list in our city is about four months to get into our mental health system or to see a counselor, and so I wanted to be available, and so I do sit with people one-on-one. But I also offer workshops and I offer support groups, and so, because of the way our culture is the digital age, all of my workshops are offered online. So I have four standard workshops right now the cloud tool workshop, identity and resilience, health and security and solutions, and those are four areas where everybody needs help all the time, like it's just standard and so, um, and then I have some toolboxes that are called wellness toolboxes. That's what I would teach in a support group. Somebody struggling with grief, anxiety or any emotional support needs, um, and those are like 10 minute or less tools that can just help build health in a certain direction.
Speaker 2:And my one of my pet peeves, kind of, is we talk about mental health, but a lot of people are referring to mental illness, and when I think about mental health, I think about how can we be healthy in our mind healthy in our mind, and so not necessarily just a diagnosis, or, you know, I'm more like hey well, how healthy are you today?
Speaker 2:Like on a scale of one to 10, where's your mental health at? And then we can go from there and adjust. So Hope and Health Hub really was birthed out of a mission to be able to not step over someone's mental health to try and give them Jesus, but address the need at hand, which is how can I be healthy in this crazy world and what? What do I need to do? What's my next step? And then I hope that my life shows the hope of Christ and I can tell you it has. I have a few clients who have gotten saved and just yes, praise Jesus, and so being able to partner with people in their health, and I believe that God can heal. So for me, you know, I believe that we don't have to live. We're always going to experience trials and tribulations and pain and the suffering of life, but we can be as healthy as we possibly can through those.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I love that and so I'm going to kind of open up a can of worms or beans here. That I think is really fascinating, which I love. So I'm not sure I want to botch their last name. I apologize if they ever watch this, but have you seen the father son duo named Cliff Nectile or Stuart Nectile? Have you heard of them? They're like these pastors. They're awesome. Well, they go to like college campuses or really anywhere and they'll preach the gospel, but what they do is they'll allow anybody kind of give them any objection they want.
Speaker 1:And sometimes these students are ruthless and one of the students came up to one of them. They said the son, his name is Stuart, he's also a licensed therapist and in addition to I believe he's got a master's in divinity, like he's very you know, he's very well educated in multi different ways. But what he was talking about. One of the students was like do you incorporate your faith into your therapy? And he said my wife did, my wife does, I before I, where I was working, I used to work for an organization.
Speaker 1:I wasn't allowed to, but I had to take a step back and start my own thing where I could. And they asked him why? And he said I, I, I want to. I don't know if it was verbatim, but essentially he said it was like I was offering band-aids. It wasn't like I was going to the root issue and he was basically saying a lot of people that are struggling with some of the things, the reason they go to therapy is what's my meaning, what's my purpose, what's my why, what's going on? And I can relate to that in the sense of coaching.
Speaker 1:When I was coaching an athlete and I was like, hey, let's do this drill, the first thing the kid would do tell me why. That's ridiculous. Why would I do this drill? But if I said, hey, you want to hit some doubles tomorrow, this is going to help to get your backside activated or whatever the case may be, it's going to benefit you. And so we're talking about incorporating your faith right to Christian counseling and how you really get to address ultimately what the healer you said Jesus can heal, right, I believe that as well, but it can go together. It's not one or the other, and I believe that if you look at it from a biblical perspective, and I believe that if you look at it from a biblical perspective, they are intertwined and I love that. So talk about kind of how you intertwine your faith into the counseling, if you wouldn't mind, and how that goes in the process through, maybe what a session would look like if you don't mind.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I want to back up and talk about the relationship between, like, the spiritual world and psychology. Um, and the reason why is because it's important that we understand what we're actually up against. And I did not grow up in an environment where psychology was utilized at all. No, secular counseling was really, and I want to say aloud, I want to be generous there, but there was just no space there because I was a pastor's kid where we did believe that the Bible could heal but there were also not very many Christian counselors. So a lot of the healing comes from groups and Bible studies and worship services and healing services, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And when I got into psychology, I had to address this very issue because I had to go well, what do I believe? Psychology is the study of the mind, how the mind functions and how the mind functions and affects the body and how the body can affect the mind. That's it. The problem is is that we um in, uh in the forties, um, when, uh, well, let's go back 1880s to the 1920s where Freud came in and he was kind of a perv and so he, he kind of wrecked a lot of the 40s, 50s and 60s, the movement of humanistic psychology where it came in and so many people got spiritual in the fanning out of psychology really hit the church sideways. And so while there were a lot of really good Christian psychologists like Alfred Adler and and the problem is is they just got buried by a lot of weird stuff, by a lot of weird stuff. So the church kind of was like nope, we're just, we just it's, we just don't have any psychology, because they all got weird and the unfortunate part is we missed a lot of like the understanding and the tools that were necessary to unlock brain and body to combine with the soul. And so when I got into psychology, I really had to address like, what did I believe and why do I believe it and why am I learning this? So my choice in this was to go to a Christian university, a private Christian university, because I wanted to keep my faith. And they have done an incredible job of really laying the foundation of psychology so that we're understanding what is going on.
Speaker 2:So all the neuroscience and all of that stuff in the brain, how it affects us, and the body, how does the body affect the brain, and so, coupled with a biblical studies degree, it's like this incredible trinity of information that really affects us every single day, and it's dynamic. The problem is is that we can't. Let's just take a body problem like fat. Okay, we can't pray away our fat, it's an impossibility. So we also can't pray away anxiety, and so God calls us not to be anxious, and prayer is definitely part of the tool set that we need.
Speaker 2:But we also have a body issue and a body problem that we have to deal with, which might be caused by a brain issue, which needs a brain solution. So we have soul solutions that have healing, and we have mind solutions and we have body solutions, and all of those things function as one whole healthy human being. So what that looks like in a counseling session is what needs to be addressed. Do we have a mind belief problem, do we have a conviction issue, or do we have a body issue that's really affecting us?
Speaker 2:And so my job as a counselor is to assess and evaluate what are we really dealing with? What's the root? And so there are some people who have a conviction issue and they don't know where they fit and they don't know truth, and that needs to be the first thing. And then we have, like bad thinking systems and all kinds of stuff in our brain. And then we also have anxiety that needs to be dealt with and tools, you know, just regular therapeutic tools to be able to like how can I connect my brain and my body together? Like breathing and, you know, like working out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean this is. I'm so happy we got in this conversation because I love this. As someone who is disabled physically, I think there's so many things that go in alignment with psychology, mental health, physical health. Like you said, it's an all together, it's a trinity, right, there's everything spiritual, and why I think this is so amazing is because, you know, I think about this parable that, like I've always, like you know, my dad would always tell me all the time, because I would be this stubborn kid that like, even if I didn't, if I had pain, I just would push through it.
Speaker 1:That's just what I did. I was just like you know what, I'm gonna keep going. But my dad would always tell me this story. He's like, dude, he's like, you know, it's a story about the two boats and the helicopter. He's like, you know, this guy's in the water drowning, right and and he's like he's dying. His boat comes right and they're like hey, you know, you need help. He's like, no, god's got me, he's gonna come save me. I'm good, boom, you know. Another boat says the same thing no, I'm good, I got, you know, god's gonna come, miracle me, he's gonna do it. Boom, great helicopter's. Like, bro, you're pretty much dead, like you need some help. You're like no, god's gonna come down and get me. The dude dies and he's like yo God, why did you not save me? He said I did. I sent you two boats and a helicopter.
Speaker 1:And I think why I bring this up is there's so many resources. People are like God's going to perform a miracle. What if his miracle is by you going to meet that therapist that's faith-based to help you in your situation? Or what if your miracle is going to see the doctor and to get the cancer treatment? I believe in praying away, you know. I believe in healing. I believe in those things.
Speaker 1:But I believe we also have to put ourselves in a position to receive a miracle right. You know, I believe that God can perform miracles. I've seen it in my own life. I've seen it in other people's lives. My dad would always make this joke. He's like Jesus isn't going to come down here and magically, miraculously, do something. If you're just sitting on the couch eating Doritos, playing Xbox, like, what are you doing to get yourself in a position to receive the miracle Right?
Speaker 1:And I think that's so important in this aspect, in the mental health world and in all aspects of life that guys like, like we all are Christians or if you're not a Christian. As believers, we believe we serve an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God, but I believe he's given us so many resources and the free will to be able to access these resources that he has given the gifts and abilities to individuals and education to serve his children and us. Being defiant in trying to do different things, by not working through these things is ultimately we're harming ourselves and putting limitations on God and putting God in a box, and so I just love that you are on fire for this and making so many amazing changes in people's lives, which is amazing, and one of my you know inspirations is always, you know, in this, in this aspect that I'm in now with the motivational and inspirational speaking and kind of mentoring, you know my, my journey with people right now is where I'm at, and maybe you can understand this a little bit too is. I believe there's a lot of people out there I'm just going to use this example Like I love helping people with disabilities journey through doing the best with what God gave them. I believe that there's a lot of great advocates out there that are trying to work with the government to make better ADA laws, or they're working with different nonprofits, but I don't see a lot of people that are helping people with disabilities today. How are you going to do the best of what you're giving today? What I mean by that is like okay, let's say, 25 years down the road, great, it's a perfect, all-inclusive world.
Speaker 1:I still doubt that's the reality. But what can we do today to help these individuals navigate the journey and the challenges that they're up against? Looking at it through biblical principles, who God's calling them to be? And I just love to hear what you're doing, because it's a similar avenue that I feel called to as well. And as far as the psychology and the mentoring slash, like I've, I've even thought about getting you know doing Christian counseling down the road as well.
Speaker 1:Um, but I just so thankful you said that because I see these videos sometimes on on social media. Or it's just like just got to pray harder, you just gotta you know, or or you just gotta be better and all these other things, and it's just so sad, like that's not the reality, like it goes together. Prayer, like you said, can help, but God gives us resources like people like yourself, and medication for the ones that need it and other things right To to be able to work through these things, um, but I'm so happy that you were able to dive into that, um. Now the next you know uh question or or topic I'd love to dive into is so you're, you're doing the hope and health hub.
Speaker 1:Now, I struggle with this sometimes, and we're similar in this way, I'm sure is we're pouring out to people constantly. Right You're? You're probably having to hear some heavy stuff. Right, I'm in the care ministry, where I'm at my church, and they're weekend week out. I'm hearing some like, wow, okay, like Lord, I need you to come into this moment with me and the individual. How can we navigate this? But how are you filling your cup up while, ultimately, other people pouring out onto you, right? And what does that balance look like for you? What are some things that maybe that you do to keep your cup filled when you're serving others?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this is a great question because I really believe in caring for the ministry leader's soul and this is it's so important and, as I said, about being able to worship with my life. If I am not living as an example of the things that I'm teaching, then that's not okay. That would come across as hypocrisy, right? So I have taken very seriously, in very like heart conviction, emotional stability, and so emotional stability and or mental health is social, emotional and physical, and so for me, I have some pretty strict boundaries in my life when it comes to my sleep, my eating habits, my hours that I work. I really know that there is a never-ending ministry, but I also believe that it would be impolite and improper for me to sit down with somebody if I'm not a hundred percent and well, a hundred percent is, most of the time, not possible. I also believe that if I'm going to pour into somebody, then my cup has to be full.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And so Bible studies for me are really important. Worship is really important. I actually lead worship once a month for Celebrate Recovery.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They are probably the best worshipers on the planet, and so everyone's so raw and open and like willing, and it's amazing. So, um, we'd love to have you out to Kingman to come to our recovery, so, um, but that's I. Ha, I'm really careful digital and social media. My life is very public and so my private life is definitely private. I'm careful with what I share about my private life. I'm, you know, a wife and I'm also a grandma and I have kids. So I know I have two grandbabies and so, but I don't, I don't share a lot of that, so that's something that doesn't get wrapped up in my family. And I also am quite weird A lot of weekends I shut my phone off.
Speaker 2:So from Friday night to Sunday night, I like to shut my phone off as long as I'm not traveling. I have a bat phone. We call it a bat phone. It's a land line, like it's weird. And so I have a phone that, you know, only a couple people have and they know that if my phone is off, they can call that phone. Or or you can show up to my house, like you know, if you really need me, you can show up. But it's really helpful for the brain and the soul to rest. I really believe in Sabbath. One of our big words are Sabbath hard and so if we're going to work hard and we're going to play, hard.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Then we really need to Sabbath hard. I don't have my Sabbath hard shirt on, but you have one?
Speaker 1:Oh, I need one of those.
Speaker 2:I can get you one of those, so, but that's really I. I believe we have so much anxiety, but our bodies weren't either, and we glorify busyness, we glorify working too much and not paying attention to our bodies, and so I'm really careful about those aspects of my life to remain full. I also have good people who speak into my life often and tell me if I'm off track.
Speaker 1:So it's good. That's awesome. You touched upon some amazing aspects throughout that little part there, because I think it's such an important part. I think one of the parts that I wrestle with is I'm that person that I wrestle with is, you know, I'm, you know that person that I don't sleep very well and that you know, in a way, it's okay, but it also right. I can understand how I can see when I'm truly tapped into the spirit, when I'm truly tapped into the spirit, when I'm fully rested and being able to be you know who God really called me to be, or when days I'm just kind of running, just going right, and you know you talk about um, maybe this is, I don't know. This probably came to my head because it's something that I'll just be honest on my wrestle with. But I'm a very empathetic and sympathetic person. That's just my who I am, and one of the things that I'm getting mentored through right now is how to journey through.
Speaker 1:I'm in the care ministry, so you know it can be. It's heavy, right. We have a 24 hour church hotline at Central. I serve in that once a week and it's awesome. It's really rewarding when you get to lead someone through the salvation prayer. You know you get another one on the arc like that is such a rewarding. But on the flip side, 85% of the calls are not those phone calls right, and so for me it's like, okay, I'm the person that you know, my dad very well and I'm a lot like my dad. We're very much solution-driven, we want to help people, we want to intercede, right and understanding. One of the things God's teaching me right now is what you did for me 15 plus years ago, which you planted a seed even though you didn't see it grow instantly. And one of the things that I am personally right now working through is I know what God's done in my life and I'm so excited for other people to feel that same way and to have that breakthrough in their own lives. But I understand that it's taken me 10 plus years to get to this point Right, and I'm not saying I have it all figured out. I'm not claiming that at all. Trust me. I got my own issues. But in the same flip side of that, my empathy and sympathy with hearing people's stories is wanting to try to help them now and it's.
Speaker 1:I struggle putting that boundary, that like.
Speaker 1:There's times where I'm just like, hey, I, you know, whatever the case may be, and and obviously in the church, you know, I set those boundaries a lot better, but outside the church it's like I'm giving random people my number, be like, hey, I'm gonna get you food, like I got you, like here's my business card, like let's make it happen, you know, let's, let's do these things, and, um, so how would you, I guess, maybe to me or to anybody out there that is really just serving people, what are some ways?
Speaker 1:You're just like, okay, well, someone once told me that, like God puts you into this person's situation for that moment, but for that moment, but once that moment's over, you got to give it back to God, and that's what I continually try to remind myself. It's like for that moment you're there with them, but after that you just got to let it go. You got to pray about it, not let it go, like this like, but in a sense like submit it back to God. Right, and I guess that's a big thing. That's helped me. But what is some advice maybe for you I'm sure you probably hear some heavier things and and how do you maybe not let the that affect you and trickle into your personal life and life and and uh set those boundaries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are really really hard boundaries. So it's a learning curve. So give yourself a little bit of grace, because you'll get better at it. The closer you get to God, you get better at it. But some of the stories get harder.
Speaker 2:So this is my process. First of all, I'm a sympath, so for me I don't feel what others are feeling and I can definitely be empathetic. But, um, empaths have a really hard time and so I I feel for you, because it's hard to do. And this is this is my process, because when you hear that amount of material and content, when you hear that amount of material and content, people's stories, there's like a cable, like a transatlantic cable between you and them now, because you share in their pain.
Speaker 2:And for me, the moment somebody walks out of my office, I go oh God, I'm releasing them back to you. Please take care of them, give them wisdom and discernment for every single client, because it's so important that I don't take responsibility for not only their life but their progress and their process, and it's his to manage. And I am just this conduit. If you will this, you know this soft place that they can fall, that I can come in and be a part of their story, a seed, you know, or I can water it, whatever it is, but the moment they walk out of my office I am and I use the word release I'm releasing them into God's justice and God's plan and God's glory and all of his wisdom. So I can do everything in my part, but I still have to release them into God's care.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's so and that's easier said than done. You know, and I know your heart and everything's. That's so, and that's easier, I'm sure, said than done. Um, cause I you know and I know your heart and everything, but that's such. I love the part that you said um, you know, it convicted me in a good way. It's like the closer you get to God, the easier it gets, and I felt that now, from where I am now, from where I was before, it is getting easier and so what? It's becoming that full dependence on him, right, and I love that aspect there.
Speaker 1:The last two things. I don't want to take too much of your time today. I know you talked a little bit about what you do, setting boundaries and things like that, but what do you do on a day-to-day basis to keep God at the center of everything you do? Ultimately, your career is Christ-centered, but what do you do to stay Christ-centered in your personal life, in all aspects of your life? If someone were to listen, what would you recommend to them to keep Christ at the center of everything they do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I really believe that we're supposed to be in community and I really believe that that community is supposed to be equal and we are supposed to have people in our life who hold us accountable, and accountability is a good thing We've always made, like you know. Discipline and accountability are like these words, you know, and it's like no, it's so healthy and so, um, reading God's word is just absolutely important. I'm an audible learner, like you, so for me, being able to listen to God's word is where I land. Um, I'm also. I also challenged myself a lot, um, the we did a book hub this year, and so we went from finding God to experiencing God, to hearing God, and so right now, we're listening to the book Hearing God, and it is phenomenal. It's by Dallas Willard, it's just amazing.
Speaker 2:So we're like using our skills to hear God better in our lives and I feel like, um, I have a shirt on that says grow anyway Like there's this point where we have to choose in our life to take usually extreme pain and turn it into exponential growth. And so it is, and so we have to grow anyway. And so, wherever you are in your life, there's a point where you are going to have to choose to grow, and there's there's power in understanding that you have to grow. Um, but it takes a, an action, it's not just going to happen, and so I'm not going to just like take my Bible and put it on my head and hope that it falls in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that way. So if I am getting closer to God, then I have to do my part in our relationship. I have to be willing to take the steps necessary. Just like we're spending time together right now, but am I spending time with God? And there's for me a conversational intimacy that I have with God that it doesn't ever shut off. It's my life, and so that is a more learned. It's not a human thing Like it's. It's it's very much, yeah, it's, it's very much. This process of I am willing to grow in my relationship with Christ every day, and that means that not only am I going to do my part, but I want God to do his part too, so he gets to speak in and tell me where to grow.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I love that, because really taking a step back and removing your pride right Like I'm in my men's Bible study and we're in Romans right now and like the common theme that's been coming up for us is, just like you know, denying the flesh, removing the pride Right. And I think you know, when you are leaning into God, every day you're reminding yourself that it's not you, it's him that you're dependent on, right, and I think that's such an important aspect to being able to just live a life that God wants you to live, which is such a great point. And talking about that accountability, you know I'm in the season right now where I just got my spiritual mentor.
Speaker 1:God revealed something to me like a month or so ago. He's like dude, you're pouring into so many people, but who's pouring into you? And I look back into my life and I'm like I've always been a leader, I've always coached, I've always been in a position to lead others. I've never, besides my parents and besides my direct relationship with God, I've never really had anybody pouring to me spiritually Right. And so God was like dude, like you need to pray on this and it's perfect, like the Lord, connect me with someone. That's awesome Been on their journey for a long time with Jesus and it's going great.
Speaker 1:But I think you hit the nail on the head with that is accountability so important, right, and you mentioned earlier that by the way that you live your life, by the way your feet move, that's how people will see jesus through you, right, and I think you need someone in your life to be honest with you so you're not living that hypocrisy, right lifestyle, hypocrite lifestyle, right, and and ultimately, we want to see. You know we talk about God, use us, ok, but are we going to do what it takes to be ready to be used? You know, and I think that's such an important aspect. So, last thing, I want to wrap up here with two things would just be you have any last words for the listeners, that just kind of whatever you think we missed upon, or maybe I went on a rant about something that you want to, you know, interject something, and then after that I'd love to hear anything that you got going on here soon, or any projects you're working on, or anything that you're launching or doing that you want to put the listeners on.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I just super appreciate your candor, and I feel like this topic the spiritual world and psychology is kind of misunderstood, and so I so appreciate your ability to articulate, number one, what's going on in the church and ministry, but also what's happening outside the walls. I just think it's really important that we give it value and the value that it deserves, and so I super appreciate that. And, for me, the one thing that I'm working on right now I have two um journals out right now and I have the cloud tool journal, which is like how do I actually deal with my emotions, how am I actually processing, how am I doing that? And so it's a very simple process, and so I have the cloud tool journal. I also have the cloud tool journal Journal for Marriage that Dennis and I put together, and right now I am working on the CloudTool for Generation Z, which just happens to be you.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:So I feel as if there's a generational gap that has happened, where some of us older generations don't really understand the mental health field, and so I'm trying to give them kind of the why, how and the now of Generation Z, which is why does it even matter? How do we even address mental health and what are the application purposes? What are the application things that we need to do? How do we actually teach it to Generation Z? And so it's a dual purpose journal, and so I'm collaborating with a few other people to really just understand mental health better and give some language to, not only for you, but by you.
Speaker 2:So I'm working with other Gen Zers to make sure that it is something that we need to work on together, because I just believe that intergenerational needs to happen, that we need each other, and so we need those people that are pouring into us, and we also need to be able to pour into the next generation. And so if that's the case, then I need to understand mental health, but so does every other parent, and you need to be able to explain that to the people who don't understand. And so it's this dual purpose for Generation Z by Generation Z, but also a tool that can be used by Generation Z.
Speaker 1:That's great. I mean, that's going to do a lot of wonderful things and I love how it's multipurpose. It's not just for the people of Gen Z, it's not just for the people of Gen Z, it's to also educate people of other generations to how they can walk with a person in Gen Z and the things that ultimately, you know they're having to deal with on a day-to-day basis. But totally random y'all. But I'm going to drop this seed in here. Squirrel moment. Speaking of Dennis, my dad always says this and I still pull it out, pull it out every once, while I want to know if he says it and my dad will giggle go ha ha. That's funny. But funny, don't make it right. Does he still say that?
Speaker 1:but yes, he still says that he says it so that my dad will say it all the time. He'll always be like my good friend dennis would always say ha, ha, ha, that's funny, but funny don't make it right, and so so that's like our old joke. Now too, I'm like we say that all the time, but that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, we really appreciate you taking your time out of your day. I know you're so busy doing so many great things and just it's beautiful to see when someone is being led by the spirit but also being obedient, right, and I think that's the biggest thing you know. And just to anybody listening, guys like use her story and what she's doing on a day-to-day basis to yeah, you know we're all wrestling with different things, but use your story that you have as an individual to go make a difference, be a vessel for God. You don't have to have it all figured out. Look at your past, look at the things that you've experienced, see the gifts you have and see how you can serve others and whatever capacity you can. And I think Amy's a wonderful example of that and we're just super grateful to have her on the podcast today.
Speaker 1:And you know, ultimately I'll just pray us out here. I pray out of all of our episodes. I just think you know, ultimately we do this for God's glory and to educate his believers on how we can grow together. So you know, lord, god, dear Heavenly Father, I just want to thank you for this opportunity today. Lord, god, dear Heavenly Father, I just want to thank you for this opportunity today, god, just thankful for the family, friendship of Amy's family and the Obergs and all the things that they've done in our lives, but all the things that she's done in other people's lives to serve you and give you the glory.
Speaker 1:But ultimately, Lord, there's so many more people that she's going to be impacting throughout her life, more people that she's going to be impacting throughout her life, leading them to you and just journeying with Jesus alongside these individuals that need that assistance. God, and we just thank you for being able to tackle some subjects today that just aren't talked about enough but still deserve to be talked about, that need to be talked about because, god, we know that if we aren't going to be the hands and feet, who are? And we are just thankful for the opportunity to be able to be the vessels for you, just thank you and praise you and for all the things you have done, all the things you will do and everything you are doing right now. And, as you just made my prayer, amen.
Speaker 2:Amen, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course.