Catching Up With Christians
Catching Up With Christians
Catching Up with Christians: EP 2 - Pat O'Malley, TC at NCSA and Host of the "Keep Going Podcast"
Pat O'Malley shares his story, from swinging bats to opening up about the struggles we all face off the field, sets the backdrop for a conversation that moves beyond the scoreboard. Our dialogue takes a deep look into the world of coaching, mental health in sports, and the unshakable power of faith. We reminisce, laugh, and even dive into some of life's tougher questions, all through the lens of servant leadership and the resilience learned through the game of baseball.
Throughout the episode, we peel back the layers of what it means to be a coach and an athlete in today's complex world, where the mental game is just as important as physical prowess. From heartfelt personal stories to the shared experiences of those we've encountered, it becomes clear that authentic relationships are the bedrock of not only success on the field but also in life's grander journey. Pat's insights illuminate how simple acts of kindness and a true understanding of one another can have a ripple effect, touching lives in ways we might never fully comprehend.
Finally, we broach the delicate balance of faith and mental health, acknowledging the pressures that men in particular face to appear unbreakable. Pat opens up about his faith journey and the importance of embracing all forms of help—from therapy to medication—as gifts in our pursuit of mental health. We cap off our time together with a nod to the importance of being present for one another and a prayer for those in need, leaving our listeners with a sense of hope and the knowledge that no one has to navigate the challenges of life alone.
Welcome back to another episode of catching up with Christians. I'm your host, Coach McCarty, alongside my boy, Pat O'Malley. How's it going, Pat, Coach?
Speaker 2:I'm hanging man, how are you doing Coach?
Speaker 1:Dude. I'm glad you're here, man. It's a beautiful morning. So if you want to mind telling the people who you are and how you got into where you are, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Well, first and foremost, thanks for having me have my own podcast. It's always different being on the other side of it.
Speaker 2:So, it's fun, I like getting out of my comfort zone, I like to talk to good people. So first and foremost, thank you to you. Like Dan mentioned, I'm Pat O'Malley. I'm a former college player, former college coach. I now have a mental health nonprofit to keep going podcast and I've been with NCSA College recruiting the last five years, so really involved in not only the mental health field, not only in the game of baseball, but I know who I do it for and that's my Lord Savor.
Speaker 1:Amen to that. That's powerful stuff right there. So let's kind of talk a little bit about you know, we've known of each other for a long time but really connected over the last couple of ABCA conventions, just kind of, from my perspective, went up to the booth at NCSA and was like, hey, man, what's up? We just kind of hit it off from there. I just wanted to hear maybe your perspective on kind of our first interactions and those sorts of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for first time listeners which I love, this platform, obviously I've told you that's why we're here. Dan, you are just a sunshine man, like when you come into my view, you know in person, even on camera this morning, my mood just instantly changes. So you're one of those guys that has that effect on people. So when you asked me let's go Friday morning and 11, we were supposed to shoot a little bit later Absolutely, I'll drop everything to work with you, dan. So our first interaction, man, you had this ray of sunshine, you had the energy of the positivity which I crave, man. So thank you for that refreshing interaction and just what you've met to the game of baseball and the players and coaches across the nation. Man, it's flattering to be here and you should be proud of what you've done so far.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that and I wanted to touch upon this too, and I want the listeners to really understand this. One thing I admire about Pat is and he we're a lot alike in this similarity have you listened to everything he's got going? It's servant ship, like he's giving out to others. Like with the podcast, with NCSA, it's giving. It's not to make his brand bigger, to make himself bigger, like he is truly that servant leader and I think that's really powerful.
Speaker 1:With NCSA, their whole goal is to help kids get recruited. With the podcast, it's to spread mental health awareness and let people know they're not alone in the ups and downs of life. So it's like I resonate so much with that too, because a lot of the things I'm trying to do is really just try to make an impact on people and if that's what we can do on this platform and these other platforms, I'm doing like that's what I really love about the content you're putting out there and the work that you do from coaching, from coaching now at NCSA and with the podcast and everything. So keep doing what you're doing, man. That's some really powerful stuff and you're changing lives one day at a time.
Speaker 2:No, I appreciate that man and what I'll say is you are doing the same thing and I learned a lot from you. From afar, right, like for a long time I didn't really know kind of what I was doing, right, you kind of go into cruise control, but when you realize there's a higher power involved, you really start to find that servant leadership and I wholeheartedly believe I've got to go until I can't go anymore, because I know why I'm here.
Speaker 1:That's powerful right there, man. That's good. That's good stuff. So let's talk a little bit about your journey with. Let's start about baseball specifically. You're just kind of like you played growing up, I'm assuming played some college ball, then you went into the coaching and then now with the NTSA side. So how did that evolve? Well, you know how did that go.
Speaker 2:I think it was the little boy with a dream man. I looked back at it and I have this mom. My mom has been an absolute rock for me. When I came up, I played baseball, basketball, football, soccer. I played all these sports and, dan, unfortunately, man, I never grew. I'm 5'9. Reach week, reach week, baby, reach week. I'm 5'9. So when I wanted to play basketball, that wasn't going to happen I tried to play football. My brother was 6'0, actually was the starting quarterback over me when I was a senior, my younger brother.
Speaker 2:And then when I got into baseball I'm like wow, it's my last spring, this is my last chance to play a sport in college and I kind of ran with it. So long-winded answer. But just trial and error and being with good people trying different things, that's how I got to where I am in the game. The people is what do it?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, and I think you agree on this part. It's like the amount you can learn and the impact you can have in sports in general. But let's talk baseball specifically. Like a lot of it, with the failures and being able to deal with the failures and the ups and downs that it creates, and I think it really resembles a lot of what life is about and why I love baseball so much.
Speaker 2:It ties in man. Baseball and life are the same. You're going to have ups and downs, trials and shambulations. You're going to have big ups and everything in between. I think this game is really tied into how life works. I think it's built me into the man I am today and the one that's still trying to grow. I'm not even close to a finished product yet.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's a powerful statement there, right, Like knowing that you still want to grow as a person, Like I've always told myself and I've tried to surround myself with people that are like lifelong learners and lifelong people that want to grow and better their selves every day. Because I think as soon as you become complacent and this is to anybody that's listening as soon as you become like I got it figured out like one thing's going to probably come your way and throw you off track and then, if that doesn't happen, you're going to plateau. And so I think just to keep a reminder on growing in the areas in life that you take, areas that you want to grow, is really important.
Speaker 2:No, I agree. I think I journal every day and I write down. This was growth and then continued growth. It used to be for a long time. What did I do well and what did I do really crappy? But if you look at it from a growth mindset, I'm going to grow here. Look at what I did today. But how can I continue to grow? Man, we got seasons. Every season of life is different.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. That's an important part, right, like seasons, right. I think that we need to hit on that for a second to our listeners, because it's not a lifetime, it's not a life sentence, it's a season and it's a chapter in your life. So I think, regardless of it's an up or down, to remember that God is in it and God will intervene in that moment and through these situations, and it can be tough, but we know, with God, that anything is possible. And just a reminder that it is just a season in your life and a chapter, and yeah, amen, amen.
Speaker 2:I think God is not. He's not putting us in positions where he hasn't been successful before. We have all the tools, listen and put them to action with him as a guy.
Speaker 1:Absolutely that, 100%. So now you, so you're a player and you got into coaching a little bit. What was your? You know what made you wanna get into coaching?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it's, I don't know. I think the best quote I could think of is the guys that can't play coach.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be real, dan. I was a good high school player, like I was a really good high school player. I thought I was one of the best players in the air. In my opinion and I look back at it, I was not a great college player for a variety of different reasons, like you know. I knew I had the IQ at that point for the game, but I knew I was meant to do something different besides play the game at the next level. It was a blessing. So when I got into coaching at 22 at Rock Valley College you know Chad Herron shouted my colleges. He hired me right out of college and I thought it was a great way to stay in the game and really see what I could do and learn. So college coaching it came out of nowhere. It really did Right. When I got done playing I went from Rockford right to Rock Valley and helped do my thing over there.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. And then one thing I wanna mention too. You mentioned people who can't play, you know, tend to become coaches and things, and I think there's something to that and I have a theory and I don't know what your thoughts are. I think it's because, in my opinion and I'm not dismissing any coaches, I think all coaches are great but it's a lot easier to teach, like the Aaron judges of the world, like six, seven and absolute freaks of athletes, to hit and be really good players. I'm not saying it doesn't require coaching, but the people that are able to get this similar type of success or outcomes to a kid that's five, four, or a guy that's not at that like, at that you know, level, and I think that's where coaches right can come in, the ones that are really impactful and have, you know, that experience, are able to take the people that are maybe a little less physically talented and can break it down to where they can apply it to allowing them to get better and grow, because that's my biggest thing.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, it's not cookie cutter man. You got to go in there and one. You have to make the athlete believe in him or herself. Yep, and I missed that when I was younger. I thought it was about the X's and O's, the physical specimen, the physical stuff. We didn't put enough emphasis on making them believe in themselves, the confidence, the mental side, the mental toughness, the mental health issues. I, truthfully, was not. I was not aware. I was too young, I didn't have enough education on it. So I love what you said. There's guys that get out of bed man hit bombs. There's guys that get out of bed and throw hard. Yep, it's the in-between guys that need to show development in their everyday life and that's where coaches come in, big man.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly. And I think there's different levels of coaches right that like I've seen some amazing coaches that like really dive in with the youth game and like they are able to break it down so much better than I can and be able to allow that, you know, eight, nine year old to grow, and it's like that's impressive to see at that young age and that coach being able to break down maybe a more complicated mechanic to someone younger at a different, you know, phase of life, and so I think that's really powerful what you mentioned there, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And I want to talk about you. Know you? This is I know this is real quick before we get into the mental health I want to talk a little bit about NCSA and kind of your passion behind that, how you got involved and really just kind of your visions of being a part of that company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the whole thing is, by the grace of God, right. I always laugh how I got into that NCSA? I was 22,. I was coming off my first season at Rock Valley and I'll be honest, I'll be very transparent, dan. I stumbled into a bar in Chicago I'll never forget it and I ran into a college teammate, josh Paparone, who I'm a player, by the way. Papi was a great outfield or great player on that team and Oakton that I played with. Josh looked at me and we had a couple of beers and he said here's my business card, here's my information. I think you can be great here. And I said, okay, you're right. Like what did you say? I've never had a quote, unquote, real job. At that point I got the NCSA, never looked back. I've been here for over five years. So it's just like God is so funny, Like he'll just map things out for you and not only that, but the baseball world once again just has played such a huge role in my life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, and I think you also have taken a great time to just from personal experience with interaction with you, you're not the guy that seems to burn bridges and you're a guy that welcomes people up with open arms.
Speaker 1:You're a guy that I think that's something that's often overlooked. Interactions and first interactions are really important, right, because you made an impact on that. Yeah, you knew him prior, but, like even at the end of the day, for him to be like, hey, you could be a good fit, you had to put something more out there than just a typical interaction, right, to be able to show that you could be a good fit For, I think, the listeners. It's valuable to remember that the way you carry yourself and the way you have interactions, and the way you never know who that person is going to be later on down the road and where they're in charge, and those types of things that we just got to be really careful and treat everybody the way you want to be treated. I think that's a silly thing, you know, I hear all the time, but it's true, you know, and because you never know where they'll be eventually, you know that's it, man.
Speaker 2:I wholeheartedly believe that love is the strongest thing that we do.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And if you have teammates this is for the athletes listening or even the everyday nine to five people. Like we say in our pod, love is the strongest thing we do how we treat people. You never know when that co-worker is in a follow up with you, when you a teammate three, four years, five years later is going to go. Pat, I always loved how you did this. Can you come do this to me?
Speaker 2:There's power in that man, so treating people, even when you feel like you're getting cheated, you're not getting loved on enough. Kill them with kindness, man. Do the best you can Kill them with kindness.
Speaker 1:And you never know when you are at a point in your life where you can use that. Pick me up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same thing.
Speaker 1:Yep, and until putting that out, it's going to come back in, and I think that's what we're called to do as Christians as well. Right, like you want to be a resemblance of Jesus, and Jesus hung out with all types of people and we're around other people, and he wasn't condemning of them Right, he did not. He just loved them where they're at and prayed for them, and I think that's an important thing.
Speaker 2:No, it's strong and that tie in with our faith. Right, like that's it, man, people are going to throw rocks and threaten people that they're threatened by, and that's usually insecurities that stem in them. So the best thing that we can do is really go at every situation with an open heart and not know we don't know what people are going through it and understand that as we go on, 100%.
Speaker 1:So let's dive into what my perspective is. One of your biggest passions, if not your biggest passion, and your bread and butter. Right, so you talk about. You got an amazing podcast. Keep going podcast.
Speaker 1:You know, I've tuned in for a while, thank you, love, love the episodes. And I think it's a unique niche. And the way why I say that is because, yeah, it's a mental health podcast but it's definitely tailored more to the athletes in the. You know the sporting community and you touched upon this a little bit earlier out it is a underserved community. Athletes and mental health.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know from my personal experience of seeing my siblings grow up play sports, me being around sports all the time and being around different coaches and different coaching styles, philosophies.
Speaker 1:You know, not picking on the old school listeners, but some of the more old school list. You know guys that I've coached with and people that I've seen it's, it's, hey, you got to grind this out, hey, you can't be soft, you got to, you know, and that's not the answer. We've clearly seen where there's times where it can be the answer, for sure, but we have definitely seen the negative impact on some of those things and on the mental health side of it and I'm nowhere near an expert. I try to you know, like we've talked about already, but love people where they're at and you never know what people are going through. You know emotionally and mentally and those such a thing, so I just try to be that light for people. But I just kind of want to talk about you know how you got into you know the mental health space, maybe the mental health space what kind of one you need to start the podcast and that's episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I. It's been a wild ride over the last year. Um, when we started the podcast, I stayed all the time on there. I never thought anyone would listen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be very transparent. I thought if we could affect one person, I thought if we, if we dropped one episode, I was like maybe we can get to one person, maybe we could save a life this year and maybe we could be that light for somebody else. When we got started me and my co-host, luke wheat, and now we've added Jackie Tripp, who's been amazing too. It had Rich. You're going to help us out too.
Speaker 2:We've had a lot of great people in our corner, but when we started, it truly was the impact one life and from an athlete and a former coach that did not. I did not live up to my end of the bargain in the mental health stuff, in the mental training, in the mental performance, because I was young, I was naive, I was uneducated. I'm not making that excuse anymore, like we're making up for lost time and I want this generation and generations to come to have our podcast and have us as lifelines, because you just never know that and I I've been personally affected and you know my co-host is my co-host now have been, and several guys. It's just I. I want to make up for lost time and this is a big thing I'm passionate about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's incredible and you know I want to talk about. You know, if there's coaches out here listening, what are? Or maybe even just a leader, maybe a boss or things like that, maybe what are some things maybe they can implement in their workspace or the team to be able to prioritize mental health or, you know, to check on their people and that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll be honest. Did I say this a lot of our episodes? Authenticity doesn't whisper at screams. When you have the opportunity to get to know somebody, when you have the opportunity to build a relationship, take advantage of it. I've come to realize that those relationships create professional opportunities and success in the business world. If you love on someone and you care about them enough to talk about things other than just how are your numbers this month? Yep, amen, you, you just, it starts to open this line of communication, this level of trust that when you go to war and you need something big and you need it quickly, that person that you've bought in on it because you know that you're going to give the same to them. That relates to the established.
Speaker 1:That's true, that's that, and, first off, is that a clothing line? Because that needs to be clipped. Thank, you. That's a beggar dude that is powerful, and I talked about this a little bit on our first episode with a good buddy of mine landed and he was awesome, by the way, he was awesome by the way, he's incredible Good buddy of mine and he he had.
Speaker 1:You know we talked a little bit about how, how it's important to talk about, like you said, instead of the numbers. Or if you're in the business world, like how your sales quota, or in baseball, how's the fastball look in the day, like instead of you know all that's important but it's a given when you're an employee, you know those are your expectations. When you're an athlete, in your picture, you know these things are, you know what you're focused on anyway. But you know we talked about if you can have a conversation, a general conversation that's authentic, about life, the amount and just whatever the kid wants to talk about or the employee wants to talk about, the amount that you gain trust in the relationship that you gain with that person is life changing, is unbelievable Life changing.
Speaker 1:I've lost track how many times I had guys from like college go wait, you're talking to me about like just random stuff. Today I'm like, yeah, do you? Like I already know what I'm going to get from you off the mound dog? Like I've been seeing you for three months now, like I know what to expect. But how's the family? How's? You know your girlfriend, everything's ups and downs. You doing all right. You've been struggling in a slump Like how are you feeling? And quickly you have guys being like man, he really cares about me. It's not a transactional relationship. I think we're so caught up in transactional relationships in this generation. They say, okay, what can you do for me in return for you know something I can help you with. So authentic is important.
Speaker 2:I agree, man it's. Everybody asks how you're doing, but nobody ever asked how you, how you feel and how are you happy? Are you happy, Right, Are you? Are you at that point where you feel good today, Like a quick how are you? It's great, in passing, right, but like if you got time, man, man, this is the message I'm trying to portray. If you have time to make someone's day, go do it. In my mind, I would look back at my pictures my first year at 22. I'm coaching guys 2021. I go to the mound and I, Dan, I've seen you, you, you got famous mountain visits, man, I've never seen more eye contact at a mountain visit from you, coach, and I wish I would have seen that before you know, before I, you know, ended up not coaching anymore. The point I'm getting at with the mountain visit stuff is like hey Aaron, hey Danny.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hey, your boys got you. I believe in you. Yeah, you've put the work in, go get it. And that's in that faith and that confidence and that brotherhood, like those are things that go outside of the game. It's X's and O's are great, but that belief and that confidence in yourself and your others is big.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And like two things I talk about like for me, if you guys want the secret sauce and mound visits it's I would always go up there and crack a joke. I would take it totally off, totally off the game. I'd say something you know goofy, stupid dad joke. It wasn't even nothing crazy, it was just something silly. And and I said look, man, you want to be on the bump of we didn't believe in you. You want to be the. This team wouldn't be behind you if they didn't believe in you. Right, like, we trust you, we believe we got faith in you. And hey, you know, give your best effort. And you know what. Let's just compete here. That's all we're asking and and having that conversation. But you know that wording is way different than being like what's wrong, johnny? Like, why are you pissing the bed here?
Speaker 1:Like we, we got the champ music on the line or whatever that looks like right a shift of words and meaning behind that can really change the kid's life in a way. And I think that's a really, really important aspect to coaching and interactions with others Because, like I've said again, guys, we got to drift away from transactional relationships in society. We have to get past the like you said how are you is powerful, or how are you doing, but like, are you happy? How are you really? Like, are you going to take that extra step to really figure out how they're doing? Because people will give you something, that face value, but that doesn't mean that's really what's going on.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I think a value in a man's relationships is so much more valuable than the value of money, possessions and things like that. Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 2:I really feel that way and I think, with my coworkers now and people I've come across with, I'm just trying to dig deeper and do it authentically, because everyone gets and I do it too everyone gets in those habits of just checking boxes and 2024, man. I want to really start to pound those boxes in and continue to feed and continue to go and continue to serve, because I keep mentioning that that servant leadership is so key in my life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's so apparent, man, and keep going and we know you're going to reach those goals in 24. And to anybody listening right and you have a friend or you know of someone, let them know you're there for them. I think that's something huge, and I don't say this to Tupelo Horn and all, but I'll just give you guys an example of my own off-topic rant.
Speaker 1:But that sometimes happens in podcasts, Heck yeah, baby let's go Basically, man, I had a kid in middle of school I was friends with and he came over a couple of times growing up and I didn't really know his own life too well, I just knew him from school. He came over, turned out he would. Every time he came over he would steal stuff. And I just didn't realize that he would steal and I was like, hey, I have to distance myself from you, but you know what. You have my number.
Speaker 1:If there's ever a point in time you're really struggling, I'm here for you. I don't care about the things you took, I don't care about the money. That was your dishonest. I know there's something bigger at play here and I'm going to take my own pride and ego out of this and do what Jesus would want me to do here and be there for you. And I can't tell you it's not a good thing. Necessarily. That means there's a lot of people struggling, but that's OK.
Speaker 1:Where I've taken phone calls to really be there for someone and I think that right there, regardless of what they've done to you, if they burned you or if they've whatever, is such an important value, because no one's life is worth a couple hundred dollars that they may have took from you or an experience they could have took from you, like, be that extra person, be willing to get burned to save a life or to help someone through a really difficult season, because, although in your mind that it may not be a super big thing that they're going through, everybody's got a different threshold, like for me. People always say, oh, how are you able to experience all this pain? It's like, well, that's all I know. That's all I know is physical pain. So my threshold is a little different. I know people who have paper cuts and it's like they're having me breaking a bone. I don't judge them, but they have different thresholds and I'm still there for that person and supporting them where they're at. So that's really important.
Speaker 2:No, dan, that's an amazing story about who you are, because we talked about it earlier. Some people just don't have any feel man at this point in their life. Absolutely. It doesn't mean that they won't get there, and you also, once again, have no idea what your body was going through. Maybe he didn't have that at home and was trying to get it. Yes, I always go back to the cookie story.
Speaker 2:Have you ever heard the cookie story of two men in an airport? No, I got to know this one. This is one of my personal favorites. He just brought it up and I'm going to kind of slam dunk it. Yeah, you got two guys in an airport. One guy sits down. Another guy sits next to him with a bag of cookies. Guys, you know, grab him in a cookie, puts a cookie in his mouth, reads the paper, whatever. A couple seconds later he looks over and the guy next to him is eating his cookies out of the bag and the guy's like getting pissed right, because you've never been to an airport man. Those cookies are probably $12, right, Like I don't know.
Speaker 2:Right. So like not only is this guy trying to mind his own business being his own bubble, but eat his cookies and then go board his flight.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then this dude next to him is eating all of his cookies, like literally eating all his cookies. He's not even getting a hand in anymore. After everything, the two men get up, whatever. Blah, blah, blah. They walk to their flights, they go their separate ways. The guy that was pissed off about his bad cookies his bag is sitting in his bag. He never opened them. The whole time he was eating the other guy's cookies and didn't know. Wow, that's powerful, because you just don't know, right, we're going to make mistakes. You don't know. That guy could have got pissed at him and he didn't. He snapped there and was like you know what? This guy could use some cookies today?
Speaker 1:Incredible man Dude that's an amazing story, dude. But I did not know where that was going and I was like OK, that is a lecture, dude, that is an amazing story. But it's a great message it is. It's like that person as much as it's easy for us to get frustrated. They could have done the same thing to us, right? Because?
Speaker 2:we are flawed people. We're humans.
Speaker 1:We all sin, we all fall short of the good, and so, as much as it's easy to look at others and be like what he's doing, what they're doing, it's like what are we doing, too? We ain't perfect?
Speaker 2:No, not at all. And I think, with our journey through Christ, with our religion, with our faith background, we carry our cross daily. But, man, we stumble, we take steps back, we let people down. But if you keep and I always say it if we keep going, we keep that cross moving, we're not out of the fight yet. There's a message, there's a spirit, there's someone that's leading us where we need to go.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that goes down to faith. I remember my pastor said this. I'm doing this stuff with my church right now, going back to school to get my degree in ministry. It's been a great journey, but I just started. I'm in this class right now.
Speaker 1:It's called spiritual leadership and one of the things we're talking about is a little lecture on like hurt, habits and hangups, basically, and one of the things he was talking about is a big topic is like church, and you'll see why I'm bringing this up. It's like people tend to forget that our church is still by humans, and humans are flawed. We've created the church Like Jesus when he was here, and the church was important, but at the end of the day, look who is in charge of the church? It's humans, and no one knows. Everyone knows. No human's perfect and we are flawed.
Speaker 1:And so I think sometimes we try to put a expectation on someone that they're above it or they're higher than something, but at the end of the day, we're all broken. We're all struggling with different things. So I think it's really important to remember that. Look, we're all at different phases of our lives, we all have things we're wrestling with and we're all broken. And so when we get hurt by others, it's real quick for them to not even them, but you don't know who you could have possibly hurt and I don't mean to say that in like oh, you're a terrible person. I'm just saying it's good to keep ourselves grounded because you don't know where you're at and the actions that you might have portrayed by accident.
Speaker 2:I think that's a beautiful point. I really do, and that touched me because we're at the point now we're like, oh, in the church, there's issues in the church, Dan. There is, but there's issues everywhere.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Your relationship with God is your relationship with God. At the end of the day, everyone is trying to find their way. Everyone is trying to get where they see success, where their dream lies. The second that we start valuing our problems over other people is a problem. Everybody has their demons, their issues. That's why we're sinners. But everybody should be valued and respected and understood to the best of your ability. That was so powerful, man, because I'm telling you, when you realize that you're not bigger than anybody else and you're here for a purpose, your life starts to change Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think you have to really take a step back and realize that too. Just be like, ok, the things on earth aren't mine, it's God's provided these things, and that we're just here living it, we're the vessel for that. And I think as soon as I wrap my head around that, my shift in and worries change, because it's like none of my material things are mine, it's blessings God's provided. And when you think of it like that, then you're like wait a minute. You become way more appreciative and you see how God is moving in that moment and you know you'll come through again.
Speaker 1:And so for me, being in a season right now of unknowns, with a job and those types of things that I'm going through with the social media, it's like I've never been happier in my own life, like I'm in the most peace I've ever been. And people are like how you just moved out and now you don't have a job, you're starting social media Because I have so much faith in God and he's telling me you're at the will that I have for your life, you're living it out. It's just give me time, let it play out Like you don't have any clue. There's people you guys don't have any clue about having that peace. It is an overwhelming peace, even when things necessarily aren't perfect. Like I said, I just named a few things that I'm dealing with right now, but I'm at the best mental state I've ever been in, because I feel like God has done it before and we'll do it again, and I'm doing what I feel led to do, and so I have that overwhelming sense of peace.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about clipping something? You better clip that baby. I'm fired up.
Speaker 1:I'm fired up.
Speaker 2:And here's why Because I wholeheartedly believe that sometimes we're knocking on doors in the blessings in a different neighborhood. That's OK, and you know what? That's awesome. I'm going to keep knocking on doors, trying different keys, but once God hands me the keys, I'm in the neighborhood. I'm ready to go. I'm riding this thing with a promise, so that's it.
Speaker 1:Your blessing might not be in your neighborhood, but that doesn't mean you're not going to stop knocking on doors, absolutely, and that's a great, great way to put it, because going from my journey right like going from coaching, travel, all grown up, helping with lessons, doing all these things then graduate high school, going to college, and I'm thinking I want to do this, whatever. And being called to the ministry right, that's where I've been filled lead. And I still love baseball, I still love the game, but I feel that there was something bigger at play there and I remember when I was being like I don't know where to start, god was just telling me to jump in. Like God was like look, if you're going to do this thing, you've got to have faith in me, from the bottom to the top and beyond. And it's like. So I just dove in with no questions asked.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, it was tough, sure, but it's just really important to remember that, like, all you need is space to decide the mustard seed right, things will grow. And I think it's just really important that you just continue to try to put yourself in a position to win and allow God to do the rest, and allow to be patient and allow God to intervene and make a way when there seems to be no way, as that song says. But I think it's just an important message for people to listen to and to anybody listening. I just want to let you all know that there are better things ahead that seek God and he will seek you, as he's already there for you. And when we seek Him, we tend to see the goodness that happens in our everyday lives. We don't take it for granted as much, right, we just, you see the little things that sometimes we often just are like, well, it happens, it just your whole mindset shifts.
Speaker 2:We're here, like I keep bringing up to make an impact, but like there's storms, man, there's gonna be storms. Sometimes God's like just pick up a shovel, man. Yeah, let's go, let's go.
Speaker 1:And that's you can hear the lesson right.
Speaker 2:You can hear it and not want to act on it, because you're still beating down. Keep carrying your cross, keep picking up the shovel. Man, we're going to write the storm, with Him as our guide.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen to that man, and that's some powerful stuff. Dude, this is so cool. I love to hear your perspective. I think you are so intelligent and have some really, really fascinating perspectives. In a great way, it's like because it's an underlook community, I think, like with the mental health stuff, and it's continuing to grow and things especially. Let's just talk about athletes and males. I know my own household love my dad to death, but he was definitely a marine. Okay, it was like let's grind this thing out, like you're not getting shot at, so like it ain't that bad.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And although that worked for me, I'm going to be honest, it worked for me, but I know a lot of people that wouldn't have worked for it, and so what I'm saying is like that mental side of it is really important and it's something that's really important for a male because we're not, we're told to not cry, we're told to be tough it out, we're told to be these things, and then you know we'll dive in that. So what's your thoughts on the males right and mental health and kind of you know that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:I think that was a fantastic segue. I just think that it's just viewed wrong because there's a generational split and divide, like you just mentioned, with your dad even being the Marines. If your dad wasn't in the Marines, his dad and then his dad before him taught them that when you know what hit the fan, rub some dirt on it and get tougher. Yes, and this day and age, I think we can not only eliminate that stigma, but we can put in healthy habits. Right, it's okay for guys to be vulnerable. It's okay for guys to cry. It's okay for guys to have some days where they're not at 100%. So, for our listeners right now, dan and thank you for giving us this platform it's okay to have those dark days.
Speaker 2:Man, I was sitting and it's crazy man, I'm sitting here in Wrigley, where I started this faith journey again for the 90th time, right, yeah, where I started my faith journey again. I kind of flip flopped my life. It started here in Chicago and I remember just when it all switched. It was okay. I'm done putting on a front, I'm done trying to be the guy for everybody else. I have to be the guy for myself, and why? So, to answer your question on the mental health side for males. It's been depicted wrong. We have to gain mental toughness, we have to get treatment when needed and we have to talk about our issues because it's not just rub some dirt on it and rub off.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I have two things I want to say. First thing, you said treatment. Right, you used a story earlier.
Speaker 1:I have a view that a lot of I want to say a lot. I've heard times where churches and people and I want to talk about this in faith Facebook guys and I might get some backlash from this, but I believe this is something I whole heart of believe. I believe that God is possible, or Jesus and God can heal people. Right, god can make things happen. But when you're struggling with anxiety and depression or mental health, there is resources out there and I believe God puts those resources on the earth for us to be able to access. And I think sometimes people are like you just got to give it to Jesus. And when I say that it's like, yeah, I believe Jesus can do that, but I also believe Jesus provides resources, and what I mean by that.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you ever heard this parable called two boats in a helicopter, okay, and until he goes, this guy's drowning in the water and this boat comes and says hey, man, you need help. He says no, I got Jesus. Like God's got me, like I'm good, he's drowning. Another boat comes. You know he's drowning, you know guys say, hey, you, you know you need help. He's like no good, jesus is going to come save me. Boom helicopter. Same thing Dude ends up dying, gets to heaven. He goes God, why didn't you help me? He said I did. He said I sent you two boats in a helicopter.
Speaker 1:And I used that example for a lot of things, because I am so passionate about especially the mental health space that you need your faith and if you need medication, that's okay. If you need your faith and a therapist, that's okay. God has provided those people with those passions, with that experience, to be able to help you where you're at. And do I believe that God could cure you right away from that? Absolutely. But do I believe that maybe there's other reasons? Absolutely that he's not. But there's resources that he has put in people's hearts and provided us with that we need to act on and we cannot be, I want to say, ignorant, because I hear it sometimes like you've got to give it to Jesus and I'm like, yes, that's important, you've got to give your mental health to Jesus. But if you need medicine or you need a therapist, god's giving you that resource and we've got to jump on that.
Speaker 2:I agree and I love that story, that parable, because it's just a lot of times we're asking for God to do it, we're asking for the answers, but we're not listening and we're not appreciating the things that are already with us, and I think that's extremely powerful. I think going forward yes, give it to God, let it marinate, pray on it, talk about it, but we have to go out there and react and we have to once again pick up the shovel, carry our cross. We'll be rewarded for that. We might not reap the benefits of what we show that day For sure. It's an instant gratification world. But we can choose to be the long distance and putting in the day-to-day effort.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and I love that and you really helped finish that right. Like Ali, you did a little bit there Because I struggle wording with it, because it can be a tough topic to say, because I've had people say to you so that just doesn't mean you doubt God and you put limits on God.
Speaker 2:No, and I say no, not at all. No, I actually make it more powerful.
Speaker 1:I actually make it more appreciated.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I loved how you understood that and was able to piggyback on that. That was really powerful for me to listen to, because that's something I tell a lot of people about and that's one of the avenues I feel I would like to do later on. God bless all my heart. It's like Christian counseling, because I feel like it's a. I'd love to use biblical principles along with the medical side of it and that type of stuff, because they need to be blended. It's not one way or another in my opinion.
Speaker 2:I'm with you, I'm with you.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, so I want to dive into. Maybe this is a tougher question, but I do believe growing up, like I said, with my dad, it was a lot different than a lot of people, I'm assuming, but I also wouldn't change it for anything Because I learned a lot. So what is the blend of maybe being soft but also being attentive to your feelings and emotions? Yeah, I think that's something that we got to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in coaching and the professional world there's a difference between mental health stuff and not wanting to do what you're told when things get tough. There is, and there's, people out there that are fighting battles I know nothing about. Everybody has their demons. But please do not use the mental health side as a cop out, as a sick day, as a don't, if you're not truly being affected by it. Please don't abuse it Because it's so serious Like I can't.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you I was a guy for 22 years that never experienced any mental health issues. I used to think it was not real. I was one of those guys. I was like this is fake, you don't know, until you know. When I got affected by it, I was like, oh my goodness, this is what this is. When my people started to get affected by it, I understood I could now help them. So the point I'm trying to make is, yes, we are ending the stigma, we are getting mental health out to the forefront, but let's not use it as an excuse to not do what your boss wants you to do or take the easy way out and be lazy, because I think there's a line. There's a line there.
Speaker 1:Dude, that is real and that I think you hit the nail on the head there. I mean, that was. That's amazing Because at the end of the day, listeners, we won't know inside your mind and heart. So, at the end of the day, you got to be having the honest, the honesty right, like you got to have the integrity to, like you said, not take advantage of it but also be real. But no one's going to end this day in age because it's such a serious topic and serious thing. Everybody's going to take you seriously, so don't abuse it. And, like you said and I think that's in a beautiful way to put it, and I just am all about just trying to grow and learn and understand different mindsets and things like that. And that was an amazing dude way to put it. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, man. How you do one thing is how you do everything 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Let's transition here a little bit into athlete specifically. Right, you being an athlete and actually I want to say this real quick, I was with you on that one I had in my family. The girls and women in my family had anxiety and depression pretty heavily and I never really had it. And when I went into COVID and I went to Ohio and that type of stuff, I inadvertently kind of like isolated myself because I was still focused on my career and other things like that and I started to experience things that I necessarily I'm going to be so honest Like you did I was one of those people like because probably the way I was raised it's like, oh, you're just not grinding it out, but when you really experience that first hand, your mindset changes in your appreciation level and that type of stuff, I think, changes right when you really experience it first hand.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, and you truly and I use the quote all the time you don't know what. You don't know. Truthfully, you have no idea until it hits you. And in your situation, it was either megadjustments or I'm going to fall victim to this.
Speaker 2:And for listeners out there that, like maybe Dan, today we can impact someone that either hasn't gone through this yet or is just starting to get through this, it's not a weakness, it's a superpower. I promise you that when you get through the storm, your gratitude level, your understanding for people's feelings and your overall value and your life in general is going to change. Amen to that. So, dan, I can see it in your life because you were a guy that people relied on for the last couple of years, since I've known you in a lot of different spaces. So all of a sudden, you're not the guy right now. When you get to the other side of that man, they're going to look at you like a completely different human being and a hero. I'm trying to use the point now in our space where we're trying to build a survival guy for people that are going through this.
Speaker 1:That's real. That's real. I appreciate you realizing that that's a big, big thing. And well, I asked a couple of things I want to talk about. I know you got to get those precious pieces clean.
Speaker 2:You know it, baby, you know it. I put my phone in the charger, go ahead.
Speaker 1:For sure. So last thing, one of the last two things I'd love to touch up on here Like, let's talk about athletes, specifically in the mental health space a little bit more. Just talking about waterways, maybe coaches can implement, maybe checkups or water, maybe in your own life if you'd like to share, if that's when you started, I don't know but just talking about the athlete side of the mental health, water, maybe some reasons kids spiral and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think some things that coaches can do and do it for us, because we're not in the college coaching world anymore and we would make changes. Dan, I'm not going to speak for you, but we would make some changes on this front, I guarantee so the coaches are still doing this. When you have your study halls, when you have time with your position, guys, when you have downtime in the day, circle up your boys, circle up your girls and talk to them about something other than the sport. Amen. You don't have to say, dan, this is our mental health talk, because then kids get really like, oh, I don't have mental health. Ok, kids are kids.
Speaker 2:Coaches, open up dialogue and say, tell me one good thing about your week, and if you have a person in that group that's going, come back to me or I don't have anything. I don't want to do this. I found some people that you probably should put more attention to, start there, players, and then for the players side, we have so much available. Use the tools. If you need any of those tools, reach out to myself, reach out to Dan, reach out to the podcast. I'd love to have any athlete, any professional on and give you those tools and talk this over. I did it wrong for 25 years and I'll continue to make mistakes, but don't let other people become victim to it. I'm trying to double down now, dude that's powerful stuff and it's simple.
Speaker 1:I think it's often. For me it is Because, like you said, it's just a simple conversation, bringing the guys together. You're not having to change your practice plan, you're not having to change your week. It's nothing, it's little things you can implement that you won't even realize you're doing to just make an impact on somebody. And I think, dude, that is amazing and so true. And I want to give a shout out to somebody that I think does a great job of this and he's a private sector guide. Joey Kuna is actually someone I'm about to go record a podcast with today later on his podcast the Farm System. Tune into that everybody in the future. The Farm System is a great podcast. Talks a little bit about faith, baseball hitting, all that great hitting guy, but he's got a gratitude ball at his place.
Speaker 2:Hey, dan, sorry I lost you there for a second. You got me, yeah. What I was going to say was it's simple, but it's not easy. It's not. And if I could go back and I think you do the same we do some of this stuff differently. So, people that are in positions of power right now, let's dominate the next generation of this, because it's gone out. Dude, that's real.
Speaker 1:That's so powerful and so true. And I was just saying that. I wanted to give a shout out to my buddy, joey Kuna, and he's a hitting guy in a private sector, but I think he does a great job of this. You go to a hitting facility. He's got a gratitude wall, he's got a mental health wall and it's amazing, like when he talks about like he's gotten people inadvertently to become followers of Jesus because of it. He's gotten people. So he's got his assistant, taylor. She's amazing and she's a mental health guru as well, really big advocate and everything like that.
Speaker 1:But he's not shoving it down people's throats. It's little actions he's taken every day with his athletes that come in there. That you know. I remember talking to him. He said that first he said, guys, the gals, they would just say, oh, I'm thankful for water and then I'm thankful for this, but after two years they're putting like real paragraphs in there and because it really changed their mindset and be like what am I really appreciative of, or what am I really struggling with, or those types of things, and that is real. And that's someone who has a great platform but is still choosing to do some amazing things that aren't baseball related necessarily, and I wanted to give a shout out to him and the Farm System podcast. I'm going to record a podcast with him later today, which is going to be awesome, but he just is one of the first people that came to my mind, because I know he's actively doing that on a private level and it's such an important thing that I think a lot of more people should embrace.
Speaker 2:We should find that we need to win more relationships and games.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's that's so. Facts. I mean, I, one of the things God told me through my season is, you got to go from winning games to winning souls. But that's that's what it, you know, came down to, and I talked to this a little bit in our first episode. I'm with my buddy, land and he's. We talked about this, we agreed on this.
Speaker 1:If you're in sports, you're competitive. 99% of us, we want to win. We're not signing up to lose. So it's like that comes with a given in being involved in sports. Now it's okay to shift your focus on other things that are equally or, if not more, important. And At the end of the day I used this example because one of my coaching buddies said this to me Think about it like this you could go 56 and 8, make it all day, the world series losing its finals.
Speaker 1:And what are you? You're a loser. You're a loser dog. It's like to everybody looking around you you got a great season. Do you win the world series? No, well, that's thanks. And so it's like what are the ways? Can you measure success? What are the ways Can you help out people? Because that's what the man and they, that's what they're gonna remember there they will remember a championship, but will they remember that? They're gonna remember that conversation that might positively impact them for the rest of their life, or Negatively? I think we don't take that enough to reel up to the heart.
Speaker 2:I'll say this and and I'll let you cap us off, dan I use the quote on other podcasts. I, when I am done on this earth, when it's my time and I have a funeral, I hope there's three different people there, I hope there's family, I Hope there's friends and I hope there's people that know nobody there that I never thought of a million years. We've been impacted by my life. Mmm, if that happens now, I'm God willing it will. I left my mark on this earth and and that's the I built souls and relationships and I value people and that's what I'd strive to do.
Speaker 1:That's. That's important now. Last thing for our campus up here. We talked about this a little bit, but will you mind doing a short little testimony of where you're at in your faith or how you got to where you are? If there's a shorter version, it's probably not it for you.
Speaker 2:So my testimony of my faith has been a long journey. I Went to Catholic schools a kid. By the time I got into high school I was Bible-thumped out of it. I Go to a college in Jukko. I go to a college at Rockford that might have had resources by disregarded Went on the next couple years.
Speaker 2:I'm wearing a cross with no, with no meaning I'm. I'm sitting there wearing a cross that I look back at I'm like wow, I'm just depicting nothing. I'm just going through the motions Over the last two years or so, with a lot of help from mentors and friends and family and my girlfriend Ashton, who I Truly wouldn't be here without her. She's my entire world, she's my rock. My faith got stronger when I started to put in the work into it. Mmm, I was disregarding all the tools that we've mentioned. I wasn't doing the devotionals, I wasn't wearing my cross, which is under here with pride. I Wasn't doing the Bible study work. I wasn't. I wasn't doing things the right way and domino affecting my life. So when I changed with my faith, everything changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's deep.
Speaker 1:I think you know I put a little video out yesterday about the two things you control in life as your effort and attitude right, how are you trying and how you respond to things?
Speaker 1:And I think that ties into this because you mentioned when you put effort into it, you started to reap the benefits. You started to see God actively move, and I think sometimes we think that God's not moving, but we have to seek after him to see what he's doing in our lives, because often we'll be like, oh, that was coincidence, or that was this, that was this you're, you're starting to put other labels on what God's moving because you're not Seeking him. And so I think that is powerful message, man, and it's a faith journey. It's not a faith one way, it's a faith, a journey right. And so I think that's a really important for our listeners to remember, guys, that don't be hard on yourself, grow, take baby steps every day, ask God to change the desires of your heart and he will reveal himself to you and he will show you the ways to follow him and To figure this thing out, this thing called life.
Speaker 1:And thank you, for we're capping us off with that amazing testimony man, god is so good and, but you know, I think another amazing part of this testimony with both of us is bringing people like us together, right like we, having fellowship and having people that have similar interests and similar passions and have similar you know we. You know Things we're trying to achieve and the impacts we're trying to have on like lives. That's really, you know, our biggest thing is what I love being around you, man, cuz it's like I see so much of myself in you and and that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is been an amazing hour, man. We could talk literally for the next five Sentis. Okay, this platform is changing lives.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:Been touched by this day. We're gonna leave this conversation as different people today. So, I want to say thank you for everything that you're doing and everything you've done so far, and I just want to give you your flowers, man, because I'll tell you this the second that you pick up your cross, man, and keep it moving, the second your life changes, man. It can happen in a day. Just just continue to put the working.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. I cap this off always with a prayer.
Speaker 1:If you wouldn't mind, let's do a quick prayer to close us out here and and, yeah, let's go from there. You're heavenly father. I want to bring us all together to you, gordon. I don't know where people are gonna be at when they're listening to this God, but I just want you to bring them with the overwhelmed sense of peace, hope, and that there are resources for mental health and Different things out there.
Speaker 1:God, and I'm just so thankful for my relationship with Pat and the impact that he's making on lives, god, and and that we're just so thankful to call you our father and that we're able to, you know, bring people to you, jesus, and you're just that's so amazing and allowing us to be able to record this video, an episode, god, and we're just so thankful for today, and I want to ask you to just watch over Pat and and the things that he's going through. Lord, and to anybody that's struggling with mental health, god, I just want you to bring that there's people out there that can, you know, help them with these things, and that you're there with them and that you love them where they're at and it's just season of the wise and it's gonna get better and there's resources out there to help them, lord, and I ask this all in Jesus only name. I pray amen.
Speaker 2:Amen that. Dan, you're an absolute blessing, brother. I love you like a brother.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:I got you, no matter what hey, sounds good, talk soon.